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 Points System Exploit

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alBert2000
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PostSubject: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 12:54

Current problems with the points system:

  • Players found an exploit to keep points for the next campaign. And this is an annoying exploit.
  • Players are showing off there points and make fun about how many points they have collected. This shows me that there are too many points around.
  • Points should add a little freedom and to diversify the gameplay

Yesterday I tried to fix the exploit in the points plugin.
But it did not work properly.
A proper fix would need a lot of work which I'm not willing to invest at the moment.

So I plan to change the points system configuration:

  • Reset points at each round start
  • Each player will get e.g. 30 Points at round start.


Tell me what you think?
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R1ck
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PostSubject: Yeah, I'm agree with that :) But, I think 30 points is too much for me. What about 15 points? It's my opinion :)   2013-10-26, 13:57

alBert2000 wrote:
Current problems with the points system:

  • Players found an exploit to keep points for the next campaign. And this is an annoying exploit.
  • Players are showing off there points and make fun about how many points they have collected. This shows me that there are too many points around.
  • Points should add a little freedom and to diversify the gameplay

Yesterday I tried to fix the exploit in the points plugin.
But it did not work properly.
A proper fix would need a lot of work which I'm not willing to invest at the moment.

So I plan to change the points system configuration:

  • Reset points at each round start
  • Each player will get e.g. 30 Points at round start.


Tell me what you think?
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Bass-Ment™
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 15:47

Ι agree with your "points" Albert, hehe!
Sometimes i started a campaign after finishing a custom one (usually u can collect too many points at custom campaigns/more special&common infected, larger maps etc.) with bags of points! Even at GunGame (which i love BTW X), you can use 1 item on each map and you must work very hard to gain all items at your disposal, i can assure everyone for that, lol!
I also don't like much (it's another subject but i would like to speak about that also) that we can buy almost everything from the "store", even the gas cans on Atrium, Port (there is the GunGame for this type of play Laughing )..personally i use my points to buy mostly health items, for me and the team..but if you can buy all the items, guns, mellee, throwables the game becomes easier and less interesting in my opinion..everyone gets a sniper, a knife and a molo for the Tank for example..so why exploring the map or using the random items that the game offers each time etc. And if one or two do that, everyone will do that, it's obvious! So the gameplay becomes predictable..that's why i prefer the Realism servers when i'm playing Co-op.

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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 20:12

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy 

What do I think? do not expect me to continue spending my points in resurrecting 3 guys at the same time Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

98% of players are selfish Twisted Evil and they never use their points resurrecting others. They are bad skilled players or they don´t do a lot points, so if points are reseted at each round start, they will have less points = more selfish. If players well skilled or with more points, spend their points in others thats because they have enough points to themselves. If points are reseted at each round start almost points will be used with oneself, kit, pills full heal, bile to ward off the horde then no more points to help/heal others because points was reseted Rolling Eyes .

I don´t like to see players dead, so I like to use my points to bring them to life, this is a game, to play, not to be dead and see others playing Very Happy, but with points reseted at every start round, and limited points, I will prefer save my own ass Rolling Eyes 

There are servers for all tastes.

People who want "buy system", then let them buy all they wants, except gascan (to avoid gascan exploit, some guy is recommending to others to buy gascan to finish final maps "gascan collector" before finish the previous map because gascan are cheaper). They can buy fireworks or molotov if they need fire and flames Laughing Laughing . You must disable gascan purchase on "gascan collector maps" the whole campaing or last map and previous map.

People who don´t wants buy things, then join realism server or gunmode or if they join buy system servers, nobody is forcing you to buy nothing, don´t use the buy system, but let others do everything they wants.

What about people joining servers in middle of battle and hordes in advanced or expert difficulty? they spawn with a pistol and will die very fast, let them kill some zombies with pistol to buy a melee weapon and let them an opportunity to survive. Thats a situation where there is no time to explode the map to find a melee weapon or primary weapon. Enough reason to not disable weapons or melee purchase.

I've never bought a primary Weapon and I always dislike that, because in some customs maps you start with pistol so its unfair to buy a primary weapon, so in this part I agree with Bass-Ment sentence, you should to explore the map to find a primary weapon.

If you all want to hate me for this, do it affraid.

Points reseted at every round start --> Time to be a selfish Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil 

See you Shocked 
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Tron
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 21:46

Killogy wrote:
bla bla bla
I hate u!

points system in the normal state, do not change anything!

p.s.
8 slots on servers, why???


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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 22:17

Tron wrote:
Killogy wrote:
bla bla bla
I hate u!

points system in the normal state, do not change anything!

p.s.
8 slots on servers, why???

Very Happy You hates everything, I didn´t expected more from you  Very Happy .

Do you want normal state?, then normal state for everything, then 8 slots, 10 slots is uncommon slots number. 4-6-8 slots are more common and typical slots numbers Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil 

Read this Why 8 slots.

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P.S: Less points more campers near saferoom door to get points. Disable all points, I don´t worry, right now Very Happy Very Happy 

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Tron
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 22:32

Killogy wrote:

Very Happy You hates everything, I didn´t expected more from you  Very Happy .
no, you do not understand, I hate you! only you! at your request! at this second! for points! also i hate albert! at this second! for 8 slots!
it was all good! I do not want changes!!!

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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 22:50

Tron wrote:
Killogy wrote:

Very Happy You hates everything, I didn´t expected more from you  Very Happy .
no, you do not understand, I hate you! only you! at your request! at this second! for points! also i hate albert! at this second! for 8 slots!
it was all good! I do not want changes!!!
ahh I'm sorry if I misunderstood, Very Happy 

About slots, Albert has problems cause lags and CPU use, so he need to know how to fix that and know what is the cause of thats lags, so I guess 8 slots is a temporary measure until he finds what is causing the problem and until he can deeper into the problem. Server was 10 slots always without lags so I guess 10 slots will back again.

See ya.
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Tron
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 22:55

Killogy wrote:
bla bla bla
all that is changing - for the worse

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alBert2000
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-26, 23:03

First of all thanks for all your comments.
It is important to collect many opinions.

Yes, I want to test different slot numbers to see how it affects the 10 servers in total.
I will also set more slots soon to see how this would work.
I have explained everything in this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
But it is not easy to have compareable situations on all servers.
So I need to test a little every now and then.
Or you can send me money to rent a more powerful server^^
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Tron
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 02:34

Or you can send ME(!!!) money FOR(!!!) rent a more powerful server(S)<>

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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 07:12

Maybe I need to correct my previous approach, because I think I was wrong Rolling Eyes , if there is one thing that disgusts me is camping, so if reseting points at each round start will avoid players staying 30 seconds 1 or 2 mins in the same place, waiting innecesary a horde to kill it and earn item points when they could have gone into safe room or elevator even limping Laughing (like other players did and are requesting them time ago, but they refuse to go) then reset points ^^, but I have doubt about if reseting points will avoid camping in middle of a map, they will want earn a lot points to make sure they have enough points to keep alive until reaching safe room.

I want to know if points reseting at each round map, it will reset points the second-third-fourth... times, that the team starts the same map because they died and failed to complete the map, or only will be reseted the first time the map is started. Some custom maps played in expert difficulty become very difficult to complete even with 40 points, for example, Downtown Dine. The solution is not play it in advanced or normal, (maybe for others players) because the players who played this map a few days ago, we like to play it on expert.

And I want to know too, what others think about camping, when they think/understand when someone is having a camping behaviour, so that behaviour must not be tolerated.

See ya Very Happy 
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alBert2000
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 11:34

Good points which annoys me too:
  • Camping
  • Points farming
I've added these to the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I also thought about something like we have on GunGame.
When a certain number of players reached the safe house, a map destruction counter starts.
Or the points system could stop adding points then.
But this could hit the wrong players too I think.
E.g. if you get separated from the leading group, and you have to fight hard alone or with another player, the counter would start because the leading e.g. 3 players entered the safe house.
And maybe one additional SI kill could give you points to buy a bile, to make the remaining way.
I would be annoyed when this happens to me.
Hm, maybe the points could stop counting when e.g. 30 is reached when a certain amount of players are in the safe?
So you could collect needed points to make the remaining way, but you cannot stay out to farm more points because it stops when you have e.g. 30 points.
Well but then they would stay outside to farm at least 30 points before entering the safe house.
So maybe the effort of changing the plugin would be in vain.

To answer the reset question:
The plugin already has a config option to reset the points at each round start.
The points would be reset even if the round is lost.
This is currently meant for versus so that no one gets the points from the other team when the team are switched.
I would prefer to reset only when the next map is loaded so that you keep your points as long as you play on the same map even if you fail the map multiple times.
But this would mean to modify the plugin source code because there is no config option for that.
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Bass-Ment™
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 12:24

As you guys mentioned the whole point subject depends by the situation: the difficulty of the game, the difficulty of the map or the campaign, the true skill of the players involved, other situations (e.g. spawning at the start of the map and the rest survivors are already in the ending saferoom or joining while a superhorde attacks the group or some new player who stays back etc.)..personally i didn't tell that i don't like the whole point/buy system (yesterday i played in 2018 and bought my laser sight and defis with great pleasure, haha!) i just expressed an opinion which i repeat may varies depends by the situation..and RTD is right, everyone must play as he likes..but no camping, no farming (i repeat there is the GunGame for that kind of play Laughing )...I also find perfect the idea of a standard high price for the gas cans and maybe it will be good some other items like the knife or the snipers to be more expensive Rolling Eyes

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Gudzon The Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 14:50

Ok now. Camping! Camping can be different. When someone is camping near the safe room to farm a bit of points is so goddamn annoying, i agree. But when it comes to megahorde that destroys everything on its way, why dont put yo self in tight n cozy corner of the room just simply so you would not die when you are the only 1 left behind with a knife and two hunters? if you not camp, you'll get surrounded by horde and most likely wont be able to do a thing to protect yourself.

About the safe room campers. Personal appeal to alBert: is there a way to mark "around safe room zone" that will disable point gaining after (lets say 15 second) for the person that just came in that zone, not causing others that are left behind to stop gaining them?

P.s. Ability to buy everything i want is 1 of the main reasons i play on 2019, so dont ruin the servers atmosphere just because you thing something is cheap. Tbh i DESERVE those points i get for saving people, reviving them.

How would you feel if you would be left not very far from the safe room, and no1, i repeat NO ONE will come and help you to get on your feet, and when you see loosing everything you have COLLECTED, everything that you've explored to find. EVERYTHING LOST! Shocked 
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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 16:05

Camping or player´s gamestyle?

In my opinion, For example: A real situation ocurred yesterday, when all team except one is in elevator or saferoom, and a guy "camper" he is 10 metres far elevator/saferoom without being surrounded by zombies, and he could have gone into saferoom or elevator even limping, yes LIMPING!!! yes CRAWLING WITH TONGUE!!! he has preferred camping at corner waiting for zombies coming near him and he bought Fireworks to kill zombies of that horde, that was walking up the stairs,  then as soon as Fireworks burned out instead LIMPING!!! or CRAWLING WITH TONGUE!!! to the elevator he has preferred to buy a second Fireworks to call more zombies of that horde and continue to kill them, others players in elevator incluide myself, we requested him to get in because we was waiting 1-2 minutes, but he refused to get in elevator because he considered "the horde must to be killed", he said "this is my gamestyle, is not camping, Let me take my time". He had all the time in the world to get in to the elevator before he used the first Fireworks. No need to kill a horde needlessly, so in my opinion was a camping behaviour. 1-2 MINS WAITING!!!, 1-2 MINS!!! Evil or Very Mad 

There is a situation when camping is understandable, when hordes is near/infront saferoom or elevator and you are forced, yes FORCED, to stay in a place to kill them and clear the way to avoid to be killed because hordes. Others situation, you can use bile to ward off the horde and then move to the elevator/saferoom, but staying there watching as zombies die because the Fireworks and then use a second Fireworks, thats in my opinion completly CAMPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! kill a horde needlessly when you can walk to elevator/saferoom or use bile??? CAMPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAMPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAMPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

What you all think about this example (first part), is CAMPING or is a "respectable player's game style" ?

I think the only efficient way to solve this problem, is to pray for the goodwill of this type of player and no longer have that "game style".

P.s: Sorry for my bad English Very Happy Very Happy  Embarassed Embarassed 

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Gudzon The Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 16:12

Your engilsh is very fine indeed, because i understood EVERYTHING! And i also must say that in my eyes, that is 120% camping and should not be tolerated. Unless "Forced" to use such method.
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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 16:40

Gudzon The Mad wrote:
Your engilsh is very fine indeed, because i understood EVERYTHING! And i also must say that in my eyes, that is 120% camping and should not be tolerated. Unless "Forced" to use such method.
ohh thanks, I´m glad to know people can understand my English, I have a lot problems using verbs and is/its/it Very Happy 

P.s: It´s sad to see that some players are more interested in searching/finding exploits/plugin bugs to using them, rather than reporting them to fix them and improve the server. Gascan exploit/points exploits...

People should appreciate the efforts of those who solve all server bugs/plugin bugs, and allow us all to also enjoy the game on their servers. the time, effort and dedication involved in it, just so that others can play and have fun

See ya.
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alBert2000
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 16:55

Modifying the points plugin for some distance check could be possible.
I'm would think about using start and end safe house, to avoid farming points in both safe houses.
But this would involve a distance calculation for each kill you make.
This would produce more stress on the server.
Don't know how much.
And the worst thing is, it would not solve the elevator camper.
Seems to be a lot of effort with some uncertain result.
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GMagic96
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 17:49

I give my opinion. Some players is agree with me and others no.


- About restart points per map, I don't agree because I will need a high amount of points for some situations, for example, when a lot of players die, I will waste a lot of points buying desfibrillators or healing players, buying molotov for tanks, etc. If you put this new system of points, the game will be more hard. Other thing is that all players don't have a lot of points, for it, I think that the new system points isn't a good option.


- About camping, well, I was talking it with Albert and too with Killogy. My opinion is that each player has got different styles of game. I am agree with you to ban camper players that are waiting some minutes for that respawn more hordes, killing special infected and throwing bile bomb for have more points.

The other thing is some players that are playing tactical (no camping), that some players confuse. Camping isn't the same that play tactical. Some players are stopped in some strategy site for resist the huge horde. This players do it because rushing usually is bad, because an infected special incapacited you and after the horde kills you.

Some players are angry for how play this players because they think that we are camping, but no, we are playing tactical and we prefer first kill the horde and after continue our way, and not run when there is a horde. I know that some players are angry that are waiting in the lift because some players are playing tactical, but we don't do it for annoy you, we do it for survive against the horde.

My style game is tactical. I don't like run when there is a horde, but I don't to say that I never run because there are some maps that it is necessary because the horde never ends, then I will run.

I want that you don't criticize about this style game because it is a part of game.

Well, I hope that you understand me what I want to say because my english isn't high. Very Happy 

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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 19:55

GMagic96 wrote:
....
You know I don´t agree anymore with you with what you call "tactical"  
... are you calling others are rushers? lol! affraid affraid sincerely, you are using a euphemism to justify your camping behaviour. The early mentioned example is not tactical, is camping. that happened yesterday.

HUGE horde?? For love of GOD!! Shocked Shocked were 4 octogenarians zombies walking up stairs  Laughing Laughing 4 octogenarians or maybe 5 or 6 lol!  (c4m2_sugarmill_a map) What a damn huge horde lol! , and as camper, you preferred wait unnecessarily and make noise using Fireworks (more noise = more zombies), then a second Fireworks (not enough zombies??, then more noise = more zombies a new horde or hugest) is this Tactical ??? YES!!! Tactical TO SPAWN MORE ZOMBIES!!! to kill unnecessarily just for item points not to protect team asses, (we not need a hero, we will fight as a team), just to fill the own pockets with points. Why not you used a molotov at stairs?? simply because molotov don´t spawn more zombies. lol! We was playing in normal difficulty lol! What a HUGE horde. Sorry but I´am greatly surprised with certain kinds of perceptions.

On that part of map, if you go in elevator, zombies will stay up there, blocked by elevator door,  only "4 or 5 ..." zombies will fall down, you are very well skilled player, so I guess killing "4-5" octogenarians zombies is not a challenger for you, right?.

Yes Albert, reset item points, so almost camping or euphemistically called Tactial style become almost pointless.

Players well skilled will take care of players not as well skilled or with difficulties to get points.

Sure we will have to stay longer on the map, be more careful, but I prefer that, that waiting for someone unnecessarily.

At this point, If someone is camping/euphemistically called Tactial style, I will leave the game, I don't want lost my precious time watching absurd things, maybe I need more patience, but is not the first time this happened, include without hordes, waiting, waiting....

Mic spamming, vote for a new map before finish current final map to keep the points, camping/fake tactical game style, competing to know who has earned more item points (I read that in chat conversation), to many bad things, buuf I need to rest!!!

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alBert2000
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 19:58

GMagic96 wrote:
...
Yes, you told me about your roller coaster strategy.
Stay behind and wait until someone turns off the alarm.
So the others should be the bait and clear the way.
I know you help with the sniper from behind.
But these panic events could/should be handled together too so that nobody has to wait at the end.
Luckily not all are playing this "tactical waiting strategy", because then nobody would ever push a button and run.

And when there is a way to get to some elevator or so, then all should go there asap.
This waiting and buying stuff again for new upcoming hordes is only an effect of the points system.
Without these supplies the players are often happy to reach the elevator as soon as possible.
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Killogy
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 20:24

alBert2000 wrote:
GMagic96 wrote:
...
Yes, you told me about your roller coaster strategy.
Stay behind and wait until someone turns off the alarm.
Tactical strategy on roller coaster? What about if some smoker, jockey, hunter hunts/grab you behind there?? you are alone and you will force teammates to get back your position to help you. Enough watch infront us, no time to watch behind us too.

What about if every teammates get catched by IS? you are behind too far to help them. And alarm ON and ON.

The tipical, common and usually strategy used on roller coaster is running as soon as you can and keeping all together to protect each other properly and efficiently, we don´t worry about 10 octogenarians zombies coming from behind us, we will kill every IS and octogenarians zombies coming from front of us, more players, more efficent teamwork to turn off alarm, that´s the priority, not killing octogenarians and LIMPING zombies far behind us.

See ya.
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 20:33

Last time I saw this "strategy" myself^^
Zack and Gmagic stayed behind.
All were in safe house, even the limping ones.
Then they started and both get caught by SI.
One after the other.
Seems to be not so efficient sometimes^^
But the others in the safe house had enough time to go to the toilet or so.
Just like commercial breaks on TV^^
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PostSubject: Re: Points System Exploit   2013-10-27, 22:24

Killogy, I say you that camping and playing tactical isn't the same. First, say me the meaning about camping and playing tactical and you will see that aren't the same.

Another thing, about fireworks, I don't know that it called more zombies for its noise. You want to know why I am buying fireworks? Because molotov is more expensive, for it I was buyed gascans, but how its cost increased, now I am buying fireworks. I said you that I am buying it for killing zombies and ends fast against the horde.

I am playing tactical for killing zombies, but no for have more points. If you want to change the point system, then ok. I don't need the points, if you want, you can remove the system points. Although you change or you remove the system points, I still playing tactical because is for resists the hordes of zombies and it is my style game. All players have got their styles of game and we have to respect.

I don't like that you or other player say me that I want to have more points and more points. I said you that the points for me, is nothing. I can play without points because always I am playing on the realism servers.

About my tactical on roller coaster, only I use it when there are a lot of players. If there are 4 players for example, I will run. When albert see at me and Zack doing this tactical, we doing it with the sniper for help players. When it ends, we run to the safe house, the only problem is that some smoker catch you behind. But you have got the pills for revive yourself. The other special infected don't give problems. Usually this tactical works because I do it a lot of times and I arrive to safe house.
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